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Episode 126


First Date

Show Notes

11/19/2019 | 62 Minutes

Bethany is a Colorado Native, Liberal Arts and Sciences ENFJ personality turned Therapist, and a recent dating app match with Ben. This episode is a first for the podcast, and a first for Ben and Bethany – meet a dating app match on a podcast, and document your first date. Navigate with us the ticks and tick offs of dating as we enjoy a real, authentic, human connection accompanied by two microphones.


We begin with the basics, as you would any first date:

  • Bethany is an ENFJ personality (16 Personalities lists this as The Protagonist), Ben was an ENFJ but recently tested as ESFJ (the Consul). 

    • E or I: Mind Aspect, shows how we interact with our surroundings. Extrovert (E) or Introvert (I).

    • N or S: Energy Aspect, determines how we see the world and process information. Intuitive (N) or Observant (S). 

    • F or T: Nature Aspect, determines how we make decisions and cope with emotions. Feeling (F) or Thinking (T). 

    • J or P: Tactics Aspect, reflects our approach to work, planning, and decision-making. Judging (J) or Prospecting (P). 

  • Bethany studied Liberal Arts and Sciences, then received a Master’s Degree in Social Work and has now worked as a therapist for 8 years. Ben studied Marketing, then received a Master’s Degree in Instructional Design and has now worked as a designer for 9 years.


  • Connecting with people and forming relationships on all sorts of levels. “These are my people.” Bethany’s lived in various communities in four influential, development areas of her life, and found her tribe in each. This pushed her to develop her true inner self, she had to find similarities with others when feeling like a minority. 

  • The process of growth, feeling personally stretched and strengthened. Bethany maximizes opportunities, and if it scares her, it’s something she should lean into. 

  • Creativity / Novelty. Experiencing new tastes, sights, adventures, and cultures. Bringing something unique into existence. Experiencing as much of the world as she can, maximizing her experience.

  • Progress. Seeing a need and taking initiative to improve the functionality of a pre-existing system.


  • Tradition – Bethany doesn’t want to be bound to an idea or a way of doing something that no longer serves the people practicing it. She provides the example of her family’s Christmas tradition no longer applying now that they’ve all grown up. She’s seen this show up in organizations and in her family, while Ben sees this show up more at work.

  • Excessive exclamation points in text messages. Ben and Bethany are both proponents of proof-reading your messages and providing variations in correct grammar. This could include the em dash, the Oxford comma, or parenthetical phrases. Also, check out the Grammar Snob sticker Pack available for iMessage. You’ll thank us later. 

  • Passive communication, which could include not saying what you mean, hinting, passive aggressive petty nonsense, and people not responding to attempts at communication such as a text.

  • Passive Attitudes. For instance, not acknowledging the amount of work others put into organizing and putting on an activity resulting in passive consumption rather than making a commitment to support.

  • Consumer culture. Ben shares the idea of “Create, not Consume.” Bethany speaks to, what she calls “Birthday Party Mentality.” If you see a need for something, go out there and create it, maximize it. Don’t expect it to be served to you. Sense of entitlement here as well.


  • Let us be clear: Dating apps are not a game – but the dating game is so much more amplified with the “gaming” functionality of an app.

  • There’s so much texting. We’re meant to interact with other people in real life, not through the phone screen. Let me meet you in person, trust me, you’re going to like me a lot more. 

  • Different expectations or uses of the app: Ben thinks a wide majority of girls on these apps want a texting buddy, but don’t want to meet in person or take anything serious. Relying on dating through the app, or screen-based interactions, limit our ability to create an idea of who this person is that is because it’s based on our own brain’s reality instead of an in-flesh person. Gathering information with no structural framework or context. As Bethany says it, we don’t get any coat pegs to hang anything on.

  • We form conclusions of who these matches are when we rely on what we see, not what we hear. Then, when we meet  in person after building up such a fantastical idea of who they are, one side is either set up for a a pleasant or not so pleasant surprise. That’s the danger of relying on screen interactions and not human interactions early on.


  • Authenticity. People being real, showing up as themselves. Bethany’s super power is neutralizing awkwardness to invite people to feel free to be themselves and to be herself. She doesn’t want to have to accommodate or compensate for lack of connection. It needs to be there, a good connection by two people being their authentic, real selves.

  • Having mature, clear, & honest communication. Not shying away from especially difficult or uncomfortable conversations.


Episode transcript coming soon.

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